tents

tents

1. xmid

1.1. high wind https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/dan-durston-massdrop-x-mid.4960/post-225868

The fabric should be quite similar strength as they are both 20D silpoly. The Tarptent fabric is sil/sil coated while ours is sil/PE (so we can seam tape it) so theirs probably does have edge in strength but it would be small because PE doesn’t weaken fabric like PU does.

With regard to footprint size, the new v2 of the X-Mid 2 is now 10% smaller than the Strat 2 at 5.35 vs 5.85 sq meters. On some sites the more rounded footprint of the Strat will work better (and on more rectangular sizes like developed tents pads the X-Mid footprint works better) but hopefully even on rounded sites being 10% smaller helps.

With regard to wind performance, one easy improvement with the X-Mid is to replace the shockcord at the doors with static cord. I spec’d shockcord because it’s light and very user friendly (you can vary the stake position without fiddling with anything) but that was perhaps a mistake. Changing this static cord to shockcord does largely give up one of the lines anchoring the peak (e.g. it no longer anchored solidly along the door zippers). As such, the unsupported span of the sides becomes larger since you now have the entire sides as an unsupported span, rather than 3/4 of them. We are going to change back to static cord here and it is recommend pto do for best wind performance. If you do that plus add the side panel guyouts it helps a lot. This comment applies for all X-Mid’s (regular, solid, Pro) but mostly for users who get out in high winds. In regular conditions the shockcord is quicker to use and lighter.

5. strange moss tent convention

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvCe4wX5y3A

6. 1907 abercrombie and fitch catalog

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/49016/#comments

For example, try purchasing an Egyptian cotton tent waterproofed with lead acetate- they were light, waterproof (mostly) and breathable. They used things like wool over-shirts waterproofed with anhydrous lanolin- warm, waterproof and breathable. Epic may be better but really how much better? The list goes on.

Still, it can be done and probably at no great penalty it terms of weight or functionality.

You would probably enjoy reading Horace Kephart’s book titled “Camping and Woodcraft” originally published 1917 and any or all of the reprints of Calvin Rutstrum’s books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Sears

7. tent without zippers

tarps

7.1. https://tipik-tentes.fr/Pioulou_DT

overlapping door flaps (vestibule) Not bad idea.

7.2. seek outside tents (silex and others)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUhWp1M1OMw

7.3. trailstar

8. 4 season proper

duomid?

10. ultamid vs new designs

Hi Max,

Curious on what kind of lifespan you get out of the ultamid (nights sleeping)? Do you notice deformation after a certain point? How many of them have you been through? And any thoughts on the new generation of mid-type shelters from the last years? X-mid and ilk.

11. fabrics

silpoly vs siilnylon stretch from h shires

Just for clarification, what I responded to was the experience of permanent deformation in the tent in question and that such deformation most definitely does not apply to our double silicone coated polyester. Polyester fibers have very low stretch compared to nylon fibers but both materials definitely stretch through the bias and depending on denier, weave, and coating polyester fabric can experience more or less panel stretch than nylon under guyline, wind, and water load. With silicone coating any deformation under load is reversed when the load is removed. With urethane coating and taping, however, deformation can become permanent because polyurethane tape can distort and not snap back leaving the seamed joint warped/stretched. I can’t comment on how much or how serious because we don’t make any comparable products but I can assure everyone that there is absolutely no permanent deformation in our double silicone coated polyester. Such is not the case for Dyneema fabrics which is one of the reasons why we have started offering models In UltraTNT fabric because it has diagonal bias threads in the weave which much better resist permanent deformation.

The general ’wisdom’ on the subject seems to be that the life expectancy of a silpoly shelter will be similar to that of DCF and around half that of a silnylon shelter.

I think that’s Ron Bell’s (MLD) view though and he has ’skin in the game.’

For most folk (me included unfortunately) the life expectancy of a shelter in terms of nights use will be greater than they achieve, so unless you are going to do some big through hikes you’re good with any of the materials.

- bonding to silpoly for tieouts

see bonding silpoly seams with hot knife for sewing.

12. duomid

15. more than four sides

You could also accomplish the same thing by making a faux seam in the center of a panel by bonding a 1″ or so strip of the DCF tape along it. Or two strips for that matter. You could also make reinforcing seams in this way in other directions if you figure out where the stresses are coming from. This is one of the great benefits to construction using bonding rather than sewing….

The solution to #2 is to split your big side panel into two parallel panels joined with a vertical seam. Put the “mid-panel” tie-out along that seam. Now, you can tension that mid-panel tie-out even more on a DCF shelter, because you are distributing the tension load along the seam instead of creating some wacky stress line between the panel tie-out along some arbitrary (and weak) load line towards one of the corners.

15.1. six sides

pitching method for equilateral triangles

I use John Carter’s method of making triagles with my trekking poles to place the stakes for my Hex 3. Without this trick, I find it extremely difficult to get a tight pitch. I first set a temporary stake at the center of the tent site. The “floor” area is basicaly 6 equilateral triangles, all meeting at that temporary stake. I set my pole length at 150cm. I place the 6 primary stakes for the corners, set up the tent, then place the 5 intermediate stakes.

15.1.1. luxe hexpeak v4a

widely liked, supposed to be bomber

I reckon a Hexpeak is definitely better in wind du to lower height and shallower profile. Properly pitched, as good as a Trailstar in wind.

addding shock cord on midpanel tieouts

15.1.2. Asta first snow, double zipper aliexpress

mid-panel seams for extra wind resistance

15.1.4. golite shangrila sl3 hex

discontinued but a benchmark, very solid https://www.trailspace.com/gear/golite/hex-3-shelter/ see above link vs the hexpeak

15.2. eight sides

15.2.1. aston tipik

french review

15.2.2. knot gear 8 side mid]​

also make larger one 3.7m squares!

They’re particularly good shelters because of the catenerary cut of the fabric, which makes getting the whole thing taut much easier than with the Luxe (hexpeak, octopeak) shelters. Despite the knot octagon being a lighter weight fabric than the Luxe octopeak, its far easier to stop it flapping in a breeze, which I’m sure is down to the cat cut.

17. questions for timtinker

Hello Tim

I’ve only recently found your website in my quest to learn about making mid shelters. Great work, lots of thoughts to pour through.

I will post all my questions here even though they might be related a particular post, perhaps they can benefit others.

What are your thoughts on the midpanel seam (where the two triangles join) acting effectively as another tension point to turn a square shelter into a “faux” octogon? (so each of the four panels gains an additional tension line)

The draw-string apex finishing method is quite clever, but it must have something on the pole to cinch around, otherwise it would fall down the pole, right? Compared to a traditional mid where there is a solid pocket. Have you ever used two poles in a ’V’ configuration to gain more internal space (avoids the pole in the center), like so: https://blogpackinglight.wordpress.com/2016/02/20/myog-a-frame-update/. Are you worried about the full length zipper compromising strength? That zipper is under quite a lot of force, no? And I can’t see if you have a clip at the bottom to relieve tension? What number zips are you using? I also like the idea of a full length zipper to also enable the whole shelter to become a flat tarp if needed.

-On bell walls- I really like the idea of bell walls to increase interior volume when the weather is nice, and be able to pitch low when in foul conditions. Why do you imagine it isn’t more widely used? Have you used your square design above the treeline much? At what kind of winds does the bell wall become an issue?

What are your thoughts on adding top vents? If a snow skirt is deployed I imagine ventilation becomes quite an issue, but perhaps in the conditions you want a skirt you don’t mind so much. What kind of condensation do you get in the winter without using a stove, and your breathable fabric? The other issue I imagine with the bell wall is considerable more stakes needed, and more difficulty getting a tight pitch. More material to flap around also?

Finally on size…What do you imagine would be the minimal base dimensions you would want for two (cozy) people with a short bell wall? I’ve also looked at your new design to add a vestibule. I worry the vertical walls of the vestibule would negatively affect wind resistance. And needing an extra pole is a downside. But for no extra footprint space its a nice feature. Perhaps a small one would not impact wind resistance too much.

Cheers, Kai

Author: Kai

Created: 2024-02-14 Wed 12:25

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